A Conversation With Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada, and an OpenAI Whistle-Blower Speaks Out

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Hosted by Kevin Roose and Casey Newton

Produced by Rachel Cohn and Whitney Jones

Edited by Jen Poyant

Engineered by Alyssa Moxley

Original music by Dan Powell, Diane Wong, Pat McCusker and Marion Lozano

This week, we host a cultural exchange. Kevin and Casey show off their Canadian paraphernalia to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, and he shows off what he’s doing to position Canada as a leader in A.I. Then, the OpenAI whistle-blower Daniel Kokotajlo speaks in one of his first public interviews about why he risked almost $2 million in equity to warn of what he calls the reckless culture inside that company.

Guests:

Justin Trudeau, Prime Minister of Canada
Daniel Kokotajlo, a former researcher in OpenAI’s governance division

Additional Reading:

Securing Canada’s A.I. Advantage
OpenAI Insiders Warn of a ‘Reckless’ Race for Dominance
What Aren’t The OpenAI Whistle-Blowers Saying?
The Opaque Investment Empire Making OpenAI’s Sam Altman Rich

Credit…Photo Illustration by The New York Times

Credits

“Hard Fork” is hosted by Kevin Roose and Casey Newton and produced by Whitney Jones and Rachel Cohn. The show is edited by Jen Poyant. Engineering by Alyssa Moxley and original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Diane Wong and Pat McCusker.

Special thanks to Paula Szuchman, Pui-Wing Tam, Nell Gallogly, Kate LoPresti and Jeffrey Miranda.